Tihark Orchard - help...Skree - Guild Wars Forums

Optiker · Jan 28, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I'm not a very skilled player, and I don't follow all of the tweaks to character armor, weapons, skills, etc. that I read about here. And, I usually play with my son, who is much more skilled and knowledgeable. BTW, I'm an old guy, so maybe that puts this in perspective.

I'm playing a lvl 20 E/R, and have died 6 or 7 times now (have lost count) trying to finish the Skree ending part of the mission. I get through the rest fine, and I don't bother with the drunkard and mime bonus. Only once did I get close - the last Skree was down to under 20% before I died. Usually, that last one is still pretty healthy when I go down.

I completed this once before after dying many times with my lvl 20 R/E, who I think is a much weaker character, but I can't seem to get through it with my E/R.

I searched and found a thread on this mission, but it was along the lines of "how did you feel about a mandatory solo" and nearly all of the replies - at least on the first page - were players delighted with the challenge...none were having trouble, so clearly were much better players than I am. I also checked the Wiki, but didn't find any tips in the walkthrough that would help.

I generally leave the ones at the top of the stairs till last, and wait till my health and energy are back up before going after them. I have waited for them to separate, then tried to pull one of them but always get both. If I back down the stairs and try to work on one from a distance, the one not under attack follows me and I have to switch to that one, and he invariably kills me. If I charge in to have all four of the guards involved and within my ward against melee, I am heavily attacked and die.

Anybody out there willing and able to offer any tips on getting through this one?
Thanks very much for any help!
Optiker

Darkobra · Jan 28, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Are you online now? I can give you an earth build that weakens melee. I know they're mainly rangers, so it should help considerably. You were on the right tracks with Ward Against Melee, but let the guards die. You're priority.

Optiker · Jan 28, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Yes, I'm online, but not in GW. I'm afraid I'm not very experienced with resetting skills for a given mission. I tend to just find what works for my play style and stick with it, so not sure if I can manage your earth build since I haven't done much to acquire skills other than those that I've acquired as I've worked through earlier quests. If you want to post back the set of skills, I'd be willing to give it a try. What I've been using looks like this...hope you can control your laughter

if I've made stupid errors.

Air - 0
Earth - 9
Fire 12
Water - 0
Energy Storage - 10
all Ranger ones zero

Flare, Inferno, Meteor, Fire Storm, Searing Heat, Meteor Shower, Ward Against Melee, Glyph of Elemental Power

Undoubtedly not optimum, but I've tried to balance between fast cycling and good damage with a range of energy costs.

Thanks very much!
Optiker

holababe · Jan 28, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

OK, as a monk I went into this mission with a pure heal/prot bar and still managed to finish it.
The skree come in manageable groups, so the guards can handle them. Wards will be good as will a couple of skills (maybe Armor of Earth and possibly Deep Freeze to slow them).
If you can, change to /Monk and take a heal for an emergency.

EDIT:Your skill bar looks good, except for Flare which is only really a good skill for low levels. Consider tagging it out for a monk heal, considering you have no Ranger skills

Optiker · Jan 28, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by holababe

OK, as a monk I went into this mission with a pure heal/prot bar and still managed to finish it.
The skree come in manageable groups, so the guards can handle them. Wards will be good as will a couple of skills (maybe Armor of Earth and possibly Deep Freeze to slow them).
If you can, change to /Monk and take a heal for an emergency.

EDIT:Your skill bar looks good, except for Flare which is only really a good skill for low levels. Consider tagging it out for a monk heal, considering you have no Ranger skills

I don't know what you mean by using a monk heal...is that something I have available among my elementalist skills? See...told you I was inexperienced!

Thanks!
Optiker

Commander Ryker · Jan 28, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

He means, change your secondary to monk and bring some healing with you.

Darkobra · Jan 28, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

For a build like that, you'll lose energy very quickly. You'll want Glyph of Elemental Power changed to Fire Attunement to redeem the heavy cost you're using with those skills. Also, I'd swap out Flare for Aura of Restoration to give some energy back, too. You'll find it a lot easier with just those two changes alone.

HawkofStorms · Jan 28, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Basically, you need a skill to heal yourself. Any skill. Bring Aura of Restoration (its an energy storage skill, the one of the first skills you get so you do have it).

crazybanshee · Jan 28, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Also, put some points into air magic and bring Blinding Flash. The skree do melee damage and you can stand there and laugh while they swing at you and miss.

Optiker · Jan 28, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Commander Ryker...

Ah...OK. Don't know how to do that - change secondary - but it's probably in the Wiki, so think I can handle that.

Darkobra...

OK - will try to figure that out...think I can handle that. It's true that I lose energy quickly, but tried, with what I had available, to jack up energy conservation and recovery. Obviously, your suggestions are a better way, so will try to do that.

HawkofStorms...

Yes...had it at one time and for some reason that seemed like a good idea at the time, replaced it with something else. Will go back and see where I can work it in along with other suggestions.

crazybanshee...

Yeah, had it at one time but was disappointed in what it did for me, but then, maybe my expectations were too high. Will consider trying to get it back in.

Y'all who have replied...

Thank you for all of your suggestion, and especially thank you for constructive help without going too far over my head, smart-mouthing, or otherwise making fun of my limited experience. I've seen those kinds of replies and was hesitant to post the original post, and getting that kind of stuff back. Y'all are to be commended for your courtesy and helpfulness.

Clearly the trick is to get the best combination. I'm not sure I can do all that y'all have suggested, but will try to incorporate as much as I can. I'm sure that even with a few improvements I can get through it.

Thanks again...and y'all have a great week!
Optiker

Edit by Commander Ryker: I merged all your posts together. Next time just edit rather then making all those posts in a row.

RedStar · Jan 28, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I did that mission with my ele with almost the same build as yours.
When you begin attacking the skree, make sure the royal guards are near you, then agro them and pull them near the guards. Always do that. Also make sure the skree are attacking the guards.

**cosyfiep** · Jan 28, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

if you have a secondary ranger...use troll ungent to get your health back....dont go into the next group of skrees until you are at full ....let the guards duke it out, you can always run away and come back at them.

Optiker · Jan 28, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

RedStar...yup...doing that.

cosyfiep...not using troll ungent...not enough slots for all I'd like to use!

Otherwise, am doing your other suggestions.

ALL...after following Darkobra's suggestions, died a couple more times without even getting to Skree (duel re-enactment got me). So, did a few other tweaks and still died a few more times. Wasn't sure where to get Blinding Flash and was getting impatient. Finally realized that I needed more firepower with faster recharge times, and could stand a little less energy restoration, so put flare back in. With the build I showed before, except I took out Ward Against Melee, put Glyph of Elemental Power back in, tried it again and got down to under 20 health once, but held there until that Skree was dead. But, finally finished it. The last group was relatively easy.

I have since replaced Firestorm with Flame Djinn's Haste - looks like faster recharge might help - will see if that's an improvement or not.

Finally, realized that my armor was still at 45. though pumped up a bit, so am now looking at 60 armor.

Thanks for all of your suggestions. Nice to have options when it's getting discouraging.

Optiker

strcpy · Jan 28, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optiker

Finally, realized that my armor was still at 45. though pumped up a bit, so am now looking at 60 armor.

Ouch, every 40 points in armor halves damage so a gain of 15 (60 is the max base armor) is a little over 18% reduction in damage - I bet that would have helped a lot

Also, try and make sure you have at least a minor vigor rune, get the best you can afford (since your son plays cajole him into getting you one - push for a superior

). Note that this rune *never* has a health penalty so it doesn't "count" towards saying things like "Only have one superior" - for a warrior their absorption runes are the same way (it will say when you mouse over them if they reduce your health).

I didn't see it mentioned but Glyph of Lesser Energy (GoLE) would also help for energy mangament. Flare is only decent because you are having issues managing your energy and can't pump out those higher damage spells - things like the attunements and GoLE *really* help on that.

Plus I notice that your attribute point spread doesn't seem to have runes (or if it does why a 12 in fire?). At least go with a minor rune in all the attributes (fire, earth, etc - minors have no health penalty and only help) that you use and make sure your headpiece adds a +1 to the attribute line you mostly use (in this case fire). At level 20 you should have 200 attribute points to spend (if not, check the wiki for the quests you need to do or ask here in another thread) - max fire and split the rest between earth and energy storage, though you seem to have pretty much got the split OK. If you do decide to use a superior you should only consider one due to loosing 75 health (though if you aren't having health issues having 16 in fire magic will *really* help you damage out).

And, lastly, make sure you realize that Ward against Melee *only* works against those guys that are attacking you from right next to you - that is those guys with swords, axes, hammers, daggers, and scythes. It will *not* help against bows, wands, or spells. If you run into that problem again look at increasing you armor instead as it works against everything (Armor of Earth is decent and easy to use).

Since you beat that mission this is somewhat late - however it *will* help later on. Don't be afraid to experiment - that's how we learned how to change. I'm not terribly good at it either, if I post a build many here can tear it apart and make something better, however I can clear most HM and have my protector titles so it doesn't take *that* much skill - just playing around gets most of it. And, while not "old", I'm not a kid either - I'm in my mid 30's so adults can very well do it also

quickmonty · Jan 28, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Welcome to GW and Guru. You will find most people here to be helpful, as long as you don't abuse them. I do suggest that you try to not make multiple posts (five in a row), but instead use one post whenever you can.

On topic: The two key things I have found in that quest (been a while since I have done it) are to bring a self heal and pull the Skree to the guards so they take most of the damage. Take your time, and good luck!

Monk of Demise · Jan 28, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

I would suggest fire attunement and aura of restoration, that will help with both health and energy. Other than that, like the others said, take it one group at a time, heal up between groups and use the guards.

Off topic...I am gonna kill that damn mime. This is by far the hardest masters mission i have encountered so far and I have protector of tyria title and masters in all nightfall missions up to this point and some past.

Crom The Pale · Jan 28, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I would strongly recomend useing more defencive skills for that mission.

Armor of Earth should boost you up to the point where your taking very little damage from any attacks. I would suggest a skill bar like this:

[skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Armor of Earth[/skill][skill]Enervating Charge[/skill][skill]Stoning[/skill][skill]Ash Blast[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Sandstorm[/skill]

Optiker · Jan 28, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Those who replied after I posted that I had completed the mission, thank you as well. Each of these helps me learn a little more.

strcpy...armor - yes, but I found that I can't afford anything more because of flat out cost and cost of rare materials. I only have around 20 platinum. Runes - just beginning to understand them and have in general avoided any that had a health cost. What I found with the skills that give benefits for each spell cast is that because of recharge time, I wasn't casting fast enough to overcome the decrease in damage dealing. The only point benefit due to runes is that the 10 in energy storage includes +2. I wondered about skill points and why I'm no longer getting them. Figured there is a maximum and I was at it. Didn't know how many was max. I'll look around for more. Also true of my heroes...some don't have very many. I've never been real satisfied with Ward Against Melee, but saw some advantage. I currently am not using it. Final comments - correct on experimenting, and I have been doing some. I'm learning a lot, but am having the same difficulty as I've had with WoW, LoTR and others I've played. I started out with CoH/CoV, and have more or less migrated around with my son. CoH/CoV was my favorite because the configuration (weapons, skills, armor, etc. equivalents) were simpler to manage. So, while the unlimited degree of configurations in GW (also WoW and LoTR) are a welcome feature for avid gamers, it's a necessary evil for me. In CoH/CoV, I enjoyed devising tactics to accomplish objectives rather than juggling my character's configuration. And, regarding old...you're right, 30 isn't!

. My son's older than that. I am 64.

quickmonty...thanks for the welcome. You won't see any abuse coming from me. I apologize for that multiple series of replies. Wasn't thinking when I started through those replies, just hit quick reply as I read them. I know better!

The attempts that failed, I didn't have any self-heal, but the attempt that succeeded, I had a little. Correct...I needed that. As for taking the groups one at a time...always. There was one failed attempt when two groups came together just after I attacked...I think they were too close and one of the guards pulled the second group.

Monk of Demise...I tried those two skills earlier per Darkobra's post and found that my recharge was keeping me from casting frequently enough - I think that's what was going on. So I replaced fire attunement with something that got me some quicker recharge damage dealing, and it helped.

Crom The Pale...yup! Should have more defense, but I guess I'm not experienced enough to find the balance between damage dealing and defense. That's the name of the game, isn't it! As for the skills you suggest, I only recognize a few of them, so will need to look around for the others and experiment. Thanks for the suggestion.

All...thanks for the ongoing suggestions. It continues my education. I may never get to be as good as most folks whose posts I read here, but when I play with my son or my wife (she's almost as old as I am and also plays!), maybe I can be a help instead of a hindrance. Incidentally, FWIW...I started with Nightfall, and my son gave me Prophecies for Christmas, so I play a R/E in Prophecies, and this E/R has crossed over at Lion's Arch and is playing in the Prophecies area as well as in Nightfall. Generally speaking, there's only a few quests that I've had trouble with when I can use my heroes and henchmen. But that solo Tihark Orchards quest has been a bear for me both times I've done it.

Thanks again!
Optiker

Quaker · Jan 28, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optiker

My son's older than that. I am 64.

My daughter is older than that too! But I'm only 59, old-timer.

Vanilla Guerilla · Jan 28, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I would strongly recomend useing more defencive skills for that mission.

Armor of Earth should boost you up to the point where your taking very little damage from any attacks. I would suggest a skill bar like this:

[skill]Sandstorm[/skill]

Probably hasn't gotten far enough in nightfall for Sandstorm if he's on Tihark. From his posts, I assume this might be his first character. I also don't think he's running an elite at all in his original skill set, so he may not have capped any yet.

Jan 28, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32	#1
Optiker Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2007 Guild: The Golden Anvil Profession: E/	Tihark Orchard - help...Skree I'm not a very skilled player, and I don't follow all of the tweaks to character armor, weapons, skills, etc. that I read about here. And, I usually play with my son, who is much more skilled and knowledgeable. BTW, I'm an old guy, so maybe that puts this in perspective. I'm playing a lvl 20 E/R, and have died 6 or 7 times now (have lost count) trying to finish the Skree ending part of the mission. I get through the rest fine, and I don't bother with the drunkard and mime bonus. Only once did I get close - the last Skree was down to under 20% before I died. Usually, that last one is still pretty healthy when I go down. I completed this once before after dying many times with my lvl 20 R/E, who I think is a much weaker character, but I can't seem to get through it with my E/R. I searched and found a thread on this mission, but it was along the lines of "how did you feel about a mandatory solo" and nearly all of the replies - at least on the first page - were players delighted with the challenge...none were having trouble, so clearly were much better players than I am. I also checked the Wiki, but didn't find any tips in the walkthrough that would help. I generally leave the ones at the top of the stairs till last, and wait till my health and energy are back up before going after them. I have waited for them to separate, then tried to pull one of them but always get both. If I back down the stairs and try to work on one from a distance, the one not under attack follows me and I have to switch to that one, and he invariably kills me. If I charge in to have all four of the guards involved and within my ward against melee, I am heavily attacked and die. Anybody out there willing and able to offer any tips on getting through this one? Thanks very much for any help! Optiker

Jan 28, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28	#10
Optiker Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2007 Guild: The Golden Anvil Profession: E/	Commander Ryker... Ah...OK. Don't know how to do that - change secondary - but it's probably in the Wiki, so think I can handle that. Darkobra... OK - will try to figure that out...think I can handle that. It's true that I lose energy quickly, but tried, with what I had available, to jack up energy conservation and recovery. Obviously, your suggestions are a better way, so will try to do that. HawkofStorms... Yes...had it at one time and for some reason that seemed like a good idea at the time, replaced it with something else. Will go back and see where I can work it in along with other suggestions. crazybanshee... Yeah, had it at one time but was disappointed in what it did for me, but then, maybe my expectations were too high. Will consider trying to get it back in. Y'all who have replied... Thank you for all of your suggestion, and especially thank you for constructive help without going too far over my head, smart-mouthing, or otherwise making fun of my limited experience. I've seen those kinds of replies and was hesitant to post the original post, and getting that kind of stuff back. Y'all are to be commended for your courtesy and helpfulness. Clearly the trick is to get the best combination. I'm not sure I can do all that y'all have suggested, but will try to incorporate as much as I can. I'm sure that even with a few improvements I can get through it. Thanks again...and y'all have a great week! Optiker Edit by Commander Ryker: I merged all your posts together. Next time just edit rather then making all those posts in a row. Last edited by Commander Ryker; Jan 29, 2008 at 04:44 PM // 16:44..

Jan 28, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43	#2
Darkobra Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotland Guild: Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot Profession: E/Me	Are you online now? I can give you an earth build that weakens melee. I know they're mainly rangers, so it should help considerably. You were on the right tracks with Ward Against Melee, but let the guards die. You're priority.

Jan 28, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56	#3
Optiker Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2007 Guild: The Golden Anvil Profession: E/	Yes, I'm online, but not in GW. I'm afraid I'm not very experienced with resetting skills for a given mission. I tend to just find what works for my play style and stick with it, so not sure if I can manage your earth build since I haven't done much to acquire skills other than those that I've acquired as I've worked through earlier quests. If you want to post back the set of skills, I'd be willing to give it a try. What I've been using looks like this...hope you can control your laughter if I've made stupid errors. Air - 0 Earth - 9 Fire 12 Water - 0 Energy Storage - 10 all Ranger ones zero Flare, Inferno, Meteor, Fire Storm, Searing Heat, Meteor Shower, Ward Against Melee, Glyph of Elemental Power Undoubtedly not optimum, but I've tried to balance between fast cycling and good damage with a range of energy costs. Thanks very much! Optiker

Jan 28, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57	#4
holababe Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2006 Guild: Goon Squad [LLJK] Profession: Mo/	OK, as a monk I went into this mission with a pure heal/prot bar and still managed to finish it. The skree come in manageable groups, so the guards can handle them. Wards will be good as will a couple of skills (maybe Armor of Earth and possibly Deep Freeze to slow them). If you can, change to /Monk and take a heal for an emergency. EDIT:Your skill bar looks good, except for Flare which is only really a good skill for low levels. Consider tagging it out for a monk heal, considering you have no Ranger skills

Jan 28, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19	#6
Commander Ryker Site Contributor Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: R/	He means, change your secondary to monk and bring some healing with you.

Jan 28, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34	#7
Darkobra Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotland Guild: Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot Profession: E/Me	For a build like that, you'll lose energy very quickly. You'll want Glyph of Elemental Power changed to Fire Attunement to redeem the heavy cost you're using with those skills. Also, I'd swap out Flare for Aura of Restoration to give some energy back, too. You'll find it a lot easier with just those two changes alone.

Jan 28, 2008, 02:42 AM // 02:42	#8
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Basically, you need a skill to heal yourself. Any skill. Bring Aura of Restoration (its an energy storage skill, the one of the first skills you get so you do have it).

Jan 28, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27	#9
crazybanshee Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Look out! Profession: E/	Also, put some points into air magic and bring Blinding Flash. The skree do melee damage and you can stand there and laugh while they swing at you and miss.

Jan 28, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42	#11
RedStar Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: _____________________ (\__/) (\__/) (\__/)Help (='.'=)(='.'=)(='.'=)Bunny (")_(")(")_(")(")_(") Guild: [Bomb] Profession: E/	I did that mission with my ele with almost the same build as yours. When you begin attacking the skree, make sure the royal guards are near you, then agro them and pull them near the guards. Always do that. Also make sure the skree are attacking the guards.

Jan 28, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47	#12
cosyfiep are we there yet? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: in a land far far away Guild: guild? I am supposed to have a guild? Profession: Rt/	if you have a secondary ranger...use troll ungent to get your health back....dont go into the next group of skrees until you are at full ....let the guards duke it out, you can always run away and come back at them.

Jan 28, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08	#13
Optiker Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2007 Guild: The Golden Anvil Profession: E/	RedStar...yup...doing that. cosyfiep...not using troll ungent...not enough slots for all I'd like to use! Otherwise, am doing your other suggestions. ALL...after following Darkobra's suggestions, died a couple more times without even getting to Skree (duel re-enactment got me). So, did a few other tweaks and still died a few more times. Wasn't sure where to get Blinding Flash and was getting impatient. Finally realized that I needed more firepower with faster recharge times, and could stand a little less energy restoration, so put flare back in. With the build I showed before, except I took out Ward Against Melee, put Glyph of Elemental Power back in, tried it again and got down to under 20 health once, but held there until that Skree was dead. But, finally finished it. The last group was relatively easy. I have since replaced Firestorm with Flame Djinn's Haste - looks like faster recharge might help - will see if that's an improvement or not. Finally, realized that my armor was still at 45. though pumped up a bit, so am now looking at 60 armor. Thanks for all of your suggestions. Nice to have options when it's getting discouraging. Optiker

Jan 28, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00	#15
quickmonty Ancient Windbreaker Join Date: May 2005	Welcome to GW and Guru. You will find most people here to be helpful, as long as you don't abuse them. I do suggest that you try to not make multiple posts (five in a row), but instead use one post whenever you can. On topic: The two key things I have found in that quest (been a while since I have done it) are to bring a self heal and pull the Skree to the guards so they take most of the damage. Take your time, and good luck!

Jan 28, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50	#16
Monk of Demise Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Guild: Droknars Arena Dogs Profession: Mo/R	I would suggest fire attunement and aura of restoration, that will help with both health and energy. Other than that, like the others said, take it one group at a time, heal up between groups and use the guards. Off topic...I am gonna kill that damn mime. This is by far the hardest masters mission i have encountered so far and I have protector of tyria title and masters in all nightfall missions up to this point and some past.

Jan 28, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03	#17
Crom The Pale Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Ageis Ascending Profession: W/	I would strongly recomend useing more defencive skills for that mission. Armor of Earth should boost you up to the point where your taking very little damage from any attacks. I would suggest a skill bar like this: [skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Armor of Earth[/skill][skill]Enervating Charge[/skill][skill]Stoning[/skill][skill]Ash Blast[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Sandstorm[/skill]

Jan 28, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51	#18
Optiker Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Oct 2007 Guild: The Golden Anvil Profession: E/	Those who replied after I posted that I had completed the mission, thank you as well. Each of these helps me learn a little more. strcpy...armor - yes, but I found that I can't afford anything more because of flat out cost and cost of rare materials. I only have around 20 platinum. Runes - just beginning to understand them and have in general avoided any that had a health cost. What I found with the skills that give benefits for each spell cast is that because of recharge time, I wasn't casting fast enough to overcome the decrease in damage dealing. The only point benefit due to runes is that the 10 in energy storage includes +2. I wondered about skill points and why I'm no longer getting them. Figured there is a maximum and I was at it. Didn't know how many was max. I'll look around for more. Also true of my heroes...some don't have very many. I've never been real satisfied with Ward Against Melee, but saw some advantage. I currently am not using it. Final comments - correct on experimenting, and I have been doing some. I'm learning a lot, but am having the same difficulty as I've had with WoW, LoTR and others I've played. I started out with CoH/CoV, and have more or less migrated around with my son. CoH/CoV was my favorite because the configuration (weapons, skills, armor, etc. equivalents) were simpler to manage. So, while the unlimited degree of configurations in GW (also WoW and LoTR) are a welcome feature for avid gamers, it's a necessary evil for me. In CoH/CoV, I enjoyed devising tactics to accomplish objectives rather than juggling my character's configuration. And, regarding old...you're right, 30 isn't! . My son's older than that. I am 64. quickmonty...thanks for the welcome. You won't see any abuse coming from me. I apologize for that multiple series of replies. Wasn't thinking when I started through those replies, just hit quick reply as I read them. I know better! The attempts that failed, I didn't have any self-heal, but the attempt that succeeded, I had a little. Correct...I needed that. As for taking the groups one at a time...always. There was one failed attempt when two groups came together just after I attacked...I think they were too close and one of the guards pulled the second group. Monk of Demise...I tried those two skills earlier per Darkobra's post and found that my recharge was keeping me from casting frequently enough - I think that's what was going on. So I replaced fire attunement with something that got me some quicker recharge damage dealing, and it helped. Crom The Pale...yup! Should have more defense, but I guess I'm not experienced enough to find the balance between damage dealing and defense. That's the name of the game, isn't it! As for the skills you suggest, I only recognize a few of them, so will need to look around for the others and experiment. Thanks for the suggestion. All...thanks for the ongoing suggestions. It continues my education. I may never get to be as good as most folks whose posts I read here, but when I play with my son or my wife (she's almost as old as I am and also plays!), maybe I can be a help instead of a hindrance. Incidentally, FWIW...I started with Nightfall, and my son gave me Prophecies for Christmas, so I play a R/E in Prophecies, and this E/R has crossed over at Lion's Arch and is playing in the Prophecies area as well as in Nightfall. Generally speaking, there's only a few quests that I've had trouble with when I can use my heroes and henchmen. But that solo Tihark Orchards quest has been a bear for me both times I've done it. Thanks again! Optiker